A Visit to Luis' Birdroom

Posted on Dec 18 2011 - 3:45pm

A couple of weeks ago a fellow fancier convinced me to go along with him on a visit to see some birds across the border.  It turned out to be an excellent trip as I got to see style of birds that I had not yet seen in person until that day.  One of the people we visited was Luis Belchior who took the time to take us out for breakfast and show us his birdroom even though he had things to do that day.  Thanks again for the bird Luis.

Here are a few of Luis' excellent borders.

21 Comments

Hi Dandelion I wish that all

Submitted by Donald on Jan 10 2012 - 1:10pm.
Hi Dandelion I wish that all us BORDER crazy people could have a Seminar to discuss the BEAUTIFUL BIRD so that we can all have concensus-size, terminology shape from the top, width and position of the back etc.At the end of the day we all love this bird but we all see little differences . The density of the feather(s)-I mean that the feathers are not as thick(dense)as when they arrive in SA.I have seen the difference in the imported bird after moulting the 1st time.The other thing that I have noticed is the flicking of the tail.On arrival the birds really flick their tails ,but after the moult no flicking of the tail.Have you any Ideas on how to keep the birds flicking their tailes as you see in Phil's dvd's I hopfully will be in The UK in the next 18 to 24 months and would love to meet you. Regards Donald

Yes, you're right about the

Submitted by Dandelion on Jan 10 2012 - 3:29pm.
Yes, you're right about the flicking of the tail. Perhaps it's the canary equivalent of "youthful exuberance", I do find that some hens retain this after the first adult moult and some don't. In general a lot of cocks don't. I've no idea one might go about retaining this trait. As for size. I do feel that some of Phil's birds have "crossed the rubicon" in terms of size. While he states he likes small Borders, he does not show small Borders..fact. That is not a criticism by the way, I for one would love to be able to produce birds like his which possess size AND style. Interestingly this season Phil's birds have not been as dominant and many other fanciers have birds equally as good in 2011. All for the good of the fancy, the more good Borders the better.

Hi Dandilion I am very

Submitted by Donald on Jan 9 2012 - 1:09pm.
Hi Dandilion I am very privelged to have visited Phils' Bird room 14 times.I have many discussions with him via skype.It normally goes about SIZE ,POSITION of the back and the WIDTH of the bird.I have been put through my paces by Phil.He put up 11 buff hens and 11 yellow hen and asked me to place them. I placed the yellow hens 1 to 11 exactly like he did and the buffs I swopped the 2nd and 3rd bird around,and the rest the same as he did.The word "small in the Borders" to me means the shorter cobbier birds that move jauntly in the cage and not these big birds who's tails touch the other perch. The only difference between the SA birds and the UK birds is that we have less dense feather as our climate is less severe. We The 1st show that I attended was at Blackpool in 1995 where their was 2500 birds on the bench. The birds there were not "big" birds.The show was won by Ian Hoges,with a green bird with a 360 degree crack around its neck.

Hi Donald, How do your birds

Submitted by DANDELION on Jan 10 2012 - 4:46am.
Hi Donald, How do your birds have less dense feather than the birds in the UK. Your birds are bred from birds you have imported from Phil. So I dont understand how that could be the case. I agree with your definition of size, but I would class those birds who's tail reach the second perch as long. Phil's birds are large in the body but short with it. Mostly. How is your breeding going for you? By the way there is a new Border website that is very good www.bordercanaries.co.uk I seen a picture of one of your birds on it and it was very nice.

Hi Leng If we go and look at

Submitted by Donald on Jan 8 2012 - 3:03pm.
Hi Leng If we go and look at Phil's videos of the last 3 years,we will see that his very best birds are his SMALL TYPY GREENS.He also states in one of his dvd's that the lightly varigated hens is a true Border.Why do we look for size?If the smaller It seems that we are being brain washed to believe that bigger is better.If you compare the "big" and "small" bird and give an honest opinion the small bird will win each time as their are a lot less faults and the small bir is far more jaunty .A BORDER IS A TYPE CANARY . Leng keep up the good work with your site it is great. Regards Donald (SOUTH AFRICA)

Hi Donald. I take it from

Submitted by DANDELION on Jan 9 2012 - 11:45am.
Hi Donald. I take it from your comment that you have never attended a show in the UK and seen Phil's greens in the flesh. One thing that they are not is small. They are in fact very large birds.

too small.

Submitted by Anonymous on Jan 3 2012 - 5:01am.
too small.

All BIRD related comments are

Submitted by leng on Jan 4 2012 - 11:47am.

All BIRD related comments are welcome.  That is the purpose of the comment box and I do not get offended at all.  For the person who wrote the comment "too small", what you should do is send me videos or at least pictures of your birds and I will post it so that we can all compare.  Use my contact form to send me an email, thanks.

 

I do not agree that Luis' birds are too small.  They can stretch up quite high.  A few of my birds are a little small but not Luis' birds.  Please don't mix up comments for the different posts though.  

 

I do see some quality big borders in pictures and videos from the UK/Europe but most of the birds are not much bigger.  I have also seen imported birds from a variety of sources from the UK and Belgium in person and I don't see a big size difference.  I do see good qualities in them though.

 

We should all be going by the same standard.  If you are saying the birds in the UK are of a different standard, then let us update the standard. 

Hi Leng, My opinion is

Submitted by DANDELION on Jan 5 2012 - 7:22am.
Hi Leng, My opinion is (still) that these birds are too small. You are perfectly entitled to disagree, it makes no odds to me either way. But one of the things you must remember when asking for opinions of birds is that the opinion may not be what you wanted (or would like) to hear. That being the case in this instance, perhaps in hindsight it would have been wiser not to post the clips, orpost with the proviso..comments welcome ..but praiseworthy ones only... To progress with birds, we have to be honest and truthful with ourselves. I could have said like everyone else did "WOW GREAT BIRDS" but I didn't because in my view they are nice enough birds, but small, and certainly not "WOW GREAT BIRDS" material. So don't take my comments as an insult to you or their owner or as demeaning the clips. I'm not, I'm being truthful. If a judge was to say to you...nice enough birds but too small, you need more size, would you be so defensive? In my opinon,these birds would need pairing to birds with good width of shoulder to fill potentail offspring out a little.

Hi DANDELION,   As I have

Submitted by leng on Jan 5 2012 - 5:45pm.

Hi DANDELION,

 

As I have said, I was not offended but I am now after that last posted comment.  Based on what you have written, it looks like you took all the comments that various people have written and somehow took that as being my comments.  I don't post as "anonymous".  Any comments that I write are posted as 'leng'.

 

That last comment you made about the shoulders, that is a constructive comment and I agree.  A comment like "too small" without any explanation doesn't say much other than sounding like a snide remark.  I also think that Donald is right about the back.  All that said, I would still be happy to have Luis' birds to work with. 

 

As for not posting pictures or videos, I can easily do that.  It takes me time to edit and post pictures and videos.  I can easily shut down the entire site as I have nothing to gain from this site.  It costs me money to have this site hosted on the internet and I am the only border fancier in my entire city and the surrounding towns.  With such little interest, it is difficult to get a reasonable price for the few birds that are sold.  The purpose of this site was to build interest in the hobby.  I don't even come close to breaking even on the few birds that I sell as compared to the amount of money I spend for supplies each year.  I am not going to bust a jugular vein arguing over the size of a border.  This is just a hobby.

Now that I got your attention

Submitted by Anonymous on Jan 3 2012 - 2:00pm.
Now that I got your attention ! UK borders are not better my friend spent over $40,000 U S for borders from a Champion breeder from the U K ,( Not mention Name ) I would use them for feeders , bigger does not mean better .

Bigger does not mean better.

Submitted by Anonymous on Jan 3 2012 - 2:10pm.
Bigger does not mean better. But NEVERTHELESS the birds in the clips need more size. As for your friend spending 40,000 dollars on Borders, what an idiot!!

Happy new year Shawn --- it

Submitted by Anonymous on Jan 3 2012 - 2:26pm.
Happy new year Shawn --- it is Shawn no-- Sorry got u riled up -- I Apologize . Leng has been breeding borders for only three years. Has done heck of a job ,with what he had to work with. Yes he asked his friends their opinion on ----hes birds--- not those from other breeders. Borders not to small bred late August!

Sad that some people come on

Submitted by Joe R. on Jan 3 2012 - 1:23pm.
Sad that some people come on here and all they do is give negative comments. The videos don't do the birds justice ,was their myself birds very young some not finish molting . If your going to comment at least use your name ,find that hypocrite of you. Others criticize and see faults on other peoples birds have they looked at theirs with rose glasses . Sorry Leng just couldn't take it any more!

Hang on a minute! They are

Submitted by Anonymous on Jan 3 2012 - 1:35pm.
Hang on a minute! They are small Borders. You may not like hearing that, but it's a fact, SEEING IS BELIEVING. I'm not being disrespectful to the owner or the poster of the videos.The man asked for opinions, he's got mine. You may not like it, but there ya go! People should not ask for opinions on birds if they cannot accept negative BUT TRUTHFUL comments. It's not me who has the rose tinted glasses!!

Hi Leng Complements of the

Submitted by Donald Saunders on Dec 28 2011 - 1:59pm.
Hi Leng Complements of the season to you and the family All the Borders are of good size and their show good leg.The Biggest problem is that the back is to close to the rump.If their backs could be abot 8 to 10 l closer to the neck then you would have brilliant birds.Bird no 2 has a cocked tail .This does nothing for the bird.The first 3 birds do not have enough"what is on top must be below"They seem to be squashed.I do think with the correct matting and correct feather you would improve all the chicks.

 Happy New Year to you and

Submitted by leng on Jan 2 2012 - 1:16am.

 Happy New Year to you and your family Donald.  I would be happy to have birds like Luis' to work with.

Hi Leng, Shawn here, long

Submitted by Anonymous on Dec 28 2011 - 8:15am.
Hi Leng, Shawn here, long time no speak! Wow Luis does have beautiful birds! The first one Lightly variegated buff hen (looks exactly like one that I bred last year) same shape poise, leg and markings! Imagine that - it felt like I was watching her! My favourite is without doubt the lightly variegated yellow hen no 3! Wow wow wow! Shawn

Shawn, these are very small

Submitted by Anonymous on Jan 3 2012 - 1:41pm.
Shawn, these are very small Borders, are the Borders in SA the same size? If they are, they are a long ways behind UK standard.

 Hi Shawn, Nice to 'hear'

Submitted by leng on Jan 2 2012 - 1:14am.

 Hi Shawn,

Nice to 'hear' from you and it is nice It is nice to read your note as I can see that you are still quite enthusiastic about the birds.  No surprise that you produced a bird similar to Luis' because they are from the same bloodline.  

Hi Leng, Shawn here, long

Submitted by Anonymous on Dec 28 2011 - 8:15am.
Hi Leng, Shawn here, long time no speak! Wow Luis does have beautiful birds! The first one Lightly variegated buff hen (looks exactly like one that I bred last year) same shape poise, leg and markings! Imagine that - it felt like I was watching her! My favourite is without doubt the lightly variegated yellow hen no 3! Wow wow wow! Shawn

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